What the crap Jeep?

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 05/04/2016 at 15:08 • Filed to: None

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In order to get a 2 speed transfer case on the Grand Cherokee (Quadra Trac II) you have to step up to the limited. And only one model offers the option of Quadra Drive II (the even more expensive Overland trim). Why can’t you offer me Quarda-Trac II on a nice cheap Laredo? Also, you HAVE to have the problematic air suspension on the overland.

It sure would be cool to have a choice of a cloth seat, low range jeep that wasn’t a wrangler. I mean, they are still not known to be well build machines, but for ~32,000 for a base Laredo 4x4 with low range and nearly 1900 lbs of payload, that wouldn’t be a bad place to start for a heavy touring rig.

I guess this is just some kind of thing I don’t understand.

EDIT: It turns out that you can get a Laredo E with the “off road adventure package” with includes Quadra Trac II for an extra $1000. All in with no options its a very reasonable $32,000. Select Trac II is not available on the base Laredo

BJ > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:12

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The Grand Cherokee is a luxury vehicle aimed at people who want to spend lots of money and have some utility when they occaisonally need it.

It’s not an actual utility vehicle.

I agree that the options ladder is silly, but it’s not at all surprising...

BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:14

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Sounds like you want an old one. Or a Wrangler.

HammerheadFistpunch > BJ 05/04/2016 at 15:14

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But...low range is less likely to be an important luxury option, right? It’s also core to the Jeep Brand. Why not offer it as an option?

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:15

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I need low range in my luxury SUV because I can’t be seen in an expensive vehicle without a low range option.

Stapleface > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:16

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Why? Because they can. If you want a Jeep, and you want Quadra Trac II, you’ll pay what they’re asking. I really wish car manufactures would build to order more often, but I understand the reasons they don’t.

CRider > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:16

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Because Grand Cherokees are for people that can’t afford a Range Rover to cruise around town in. If you really want a 4x4 Jeep, get one.

HammerheadFistpunch > BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. 05/04/2016 at 15:18

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How this started:

Looking up payloads

Notice that Jeep offers a Laredo with cloth seats

Build out a 4x4 Larado for $28,500!

Realize its only a single speed “awd” system

Had sad

I wouldn’t ever buy a WK2 (for the reliability issues) but 1800 lbs payload, [low range], cloth seats, 17 inch wheels, amazing off road range and less than 30 grand? That’s hard to ignore from a value perspective.

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 05/04/2016 at 15:19

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yeah...this...but I mean, do people who buy these in volume even know what low range means? let alone will ever set a hand to the lever or even ASK the salesman to make sure its fitted?

HammerheadFistpunch > Stapleface 05/04/2016 at 15:20

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oh I understand the reason they don’t but this one seems bone headed from a core brand values perspective. I mean, you may not sell a bunch of them but it helps to reinforce that you are still, at heart, an off road brand.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:20

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I can’t think of any time I’ve ever needed low range in my years of camping and off road adventures.

HammerheadFistpunch > CRider 05/04/2016 at 15:20

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What If I want a 4x4 jeep than can carry more than 4 big guys and a spare pair of socks?

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 05/04/2016 at 15:21

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really? I use it all the time.

BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:22

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But did you need to use it?

CRider > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:23

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BigBlock440 > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:23

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4 big guys? We’re not talking the unlimited here.

HammerheadFistpunch > BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. 05/04/2016 at 15:24

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I’m going to say...yes.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:25

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Why? Because the automakers abandoned the a-la-carte optioning model at the turn of the century.

BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:25

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But the majority of Grand Cherokee drivers aren’t doing that.

HammerheadFistpunch > CRider 05/04/2016 at 15:26

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No, I mean for payload. That rig is above its GVWR already without the trailer.

HammerheadFistpunch > BigBlock440 05/04/2016 at 15:28

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I was referencing the fact that the wrangler has laughable bad payload. A unlimited Rubicon can literally only carry about 4 large guys and their backpacks (1060 lbs)

450X_FTW > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:28

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Worked on the program for 3 years, the target is not the cloth seat XJ type of owners, target is the people who buy Mercedes, Aadi, BMW SUV’s. It’s kind of like saying why can’t I have the Ford Rapter suspension on a base model work truck? Because there’s almost no demand for it.

What problems have you heard about the air suspension? Only problems I ever had with it was that in Off Road 2 the rebound is so damn harsh it’s not practical for off roading at that setting, unless you truly need the ground clearance

450X_FTW > CRider 05/04/2016 at 15:29

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the Grand Cherokee is a real one.....

BigBlock440 > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:30

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And I was referencing the tight quarters of the 2-door Wrangler, it’s tight enough with just average sized guys. Saying it can hold 4 big guys is pretty generous.

HammerheadFistpunch > BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. 05/04/2016 at 15:31

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but they could be. With a low price of entry, it would be a perfect starting point for modifications for touring. In fact, it would be a perfect opurtunity for dealers to spec it out with mopar and aftermarket accessories and sell it as ready to roll. Pre-built jeeps (used jeeps and even new) with mods are very popular sellers at dealers; buyers love getting a one stop shop Ready To Run rig and dealers love financing the accessories.

HammerheadFistpunch > BigBlock440 05/04/2016 at 15:33

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True. For crawling a 2 door rubi is king, but people build these out into touring machines and that just doesn’t make any sense to me.

HammerheadFistpunch > 450X_FTW 05/04/2016 at 15:34

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Its just listed as a problem area on the TSB list. that, uconnect and the 2.0 ED are the big detractors, but there are certainly others.

As for the market? yeah, I get that. and I get not being able to offer a-la-cart, but why even offer cloth seats then?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:35

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Probably because they know a twenty year old cruiser is still better in every way for a lot less money. So they aim for the “I want a Range Rover to show off at the office and taking kids to school but can’t afford one” crowd.

Milky > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:36

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I don’t think they care.

“Jeep sales, which boosted the carmaker’s first-quarter profit , jumped 17 percent from a year earlier....” (April 2016)

HammerheadFistpunch > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 05/04/2016 at 15:37

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yes yes, I know...so why bother with cloth at all? or, why not make low range standard?

HammerheadFistpunch > Milky 05/04/2016 at 15:37

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They should...you are right...but they should.

450X_FTW > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:38

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Cloth seats - I imagine for the rental cars, and for those cheap lease deals that dealers can offer. For what it’s worth, I prefer cloth as I always sweat sitting on leather. My first Grand Cherokee test vehicle had leather seats that were not ventilated, I had the garage remove the front two seats and replace them with cloth ones out of another vehicle.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:40

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Some people prefer cloth apparently?

Low range is extra, 1% of people use it, might as well charge for the hassle?

CRider > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:40

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The Wrangler can tow 3,500 lbs and that trailer is sold by MOPAR. Most Wrangler buyers that use them install lift kits with heavy duty springs to accommodate the added weight of lights, winches, skid plates, etc. Anything you want to do to a Wrangler has been done.

Scary__goongala! > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:40

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This is kinda related. Last summer I was a driver/ car washer for Enterprise Rent a Car for a second year. In one week I gave rides to 5 people who had bought a new GC within just the last couple of months. All had different reliability problems going on. Shame cause we had some GCs in our fleet and I thought they were realllllly nice vehicles. The one guy told me he wanted to buy a diesel, I don’t remember the extra premium for the diesel but seemed crazy at the time. And now we know those diesel engines are ticking time bombs.

HammerheadFistpunch > CRider 05/04/2016 at 15:43

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You can add springs and you can add parts, but all you are doing is lowering your payload. yes the springs prop up the car...but who says the suspension is the limiting factor for payload? The axles are semifloat and even the super 44's they put in the rubicons aren’t that strong. People do it, but I wouldn’t.

mazda616 > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:43

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Because most Jeep Grand Cherokees spend their time in mall parking lots and school pick-up lines. My mom got a ‘94 Grand Cherokee in ‘98 when the SUV boom was at its highest and I think we took it off road once.

HammerheadFistpunch > Scary__goongala! 05/04/2016 at 15:44

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Its a sad story with the reliability and TSB list on these (its a long list). They look great and they have all the right hardware.

John > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:45

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And you’ve perfectly summed up my frustration with the WK2 too. Really annoyed with how they force you to spec them; I’d love a V6, 2 speed transfer case, and air suspension in Limited trim. Not gonna happen. What’s also annoying is if you do want to step up to Summit trim, you lose the removable lower fascia as well.

CRider > 450X_FTW 05/04/2016 at 15:45

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The point is to keep wheels on the ground , not hanging in the air spinning uselessly because GCs don’t have lockers.

HammerheadFistpunch > mazda616 05/04/2016 at 15:46

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same could be said for wranglers though, i mean really how many of the huge volume of wranglers see low range? I know its relatively high in the industry but I would bet its less than 50%. So if half the buyers don’t use it? why sell it?

HammerheadFistpunch > John 05/04/2016 at 15:47

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Didn’t know that about the facia. That wouldn’t bother me too much but if I could get a Laredo with 2-speed for 30 grand, a new bumper, springs, tires, wheels, roof rack, etc, etc are in the budget again...where if I got up to the limited to get 2-speed, they aren’t.

Haase > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:48

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2017 Trailhawk?

Gone > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:50

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QDII comes with the Off-Road Adventure II package (and forces Quadra-Lift air ride), but yes, only the Summit, Limited, and Overland can get it.

*Edit* QTII comes on the Laredo when you get the Off-Road Adventure I package.

HammerheadFistpunch > Haase 05/04/2016 at 15:51

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Trailhawks represent the top of the line for off road performance, but they aren’t cheap, not even a little.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:52

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You do fancy-ass let-me-see-if-I-can-go-here shit. I do let-me-see-how-fast-I-can-go-on-this-unpaved-road shit.

HammerheadFistpunch > Gone 05/04/2016 at 15:53

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According to their site, QDII is only available on overland, and there were no package options specking out a laredo.

djmt1 > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:54

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I have nothing to contribute but you good sir know your shit when it comes to 4x4s so what’s the Jeep version of the Discovery?

CRider > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:54

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Stiffer springs should increase payload, no? I believe the Dana 44 has a gross axle weight rating of 3,200 lbs and a JKUR has a curb weight of 4,500 lbs giving you some room to work with.

HammerheadFistpunch > Gone 05/04/2016 at 15:56

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EDIT: you can get it on the Laredo E. Neat.

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 05/04/2016 at 15:58

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true true. Even the unimproved road stuff requires low range from time to time. Out here when the “roads” get wet it turns into a crazy soup fest.

Gone > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 15:59

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Laredo E w/QTII

Limited w/QDII

HammerheadFistpunch > djmt1 05/04/2016 at 15:59

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Grand Cherokee. Jeep doesn’t have a Range Rover competitor, but they are planning on one.

CRider > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:01

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Jeep says 60% off Wrangler owners off road, and 80% of Rubicon owners do.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:03

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I have found liberal application of the go-fast pedal works better than low-range in a Cherokee.

HammerheadFistpunch > CRider 05/04/2016 at 16:06

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Springs don’t necessarily increase payload. They just decrease squat when loaded. IF there is spare capacity, then springs are an important part of carrying more weight safely. 5975 is the combined GAWR of the wrangler. assuming there aren’t other components that limit the payload (driveshafts, frame, wheelbase) than that leaves you with a little more than 1400 lbs payload. Add a hardtop for an unlimited (with all panels) is about 200 lbs so now you have 1200 lbs payload limit on just the axles alone. add beefy tires, swingouts, winch, bumper, etc, etc. You are down to a usable max payload in the neighborhood of “a guy and his dog” before you load it up with gear.

HammerheadFistpunch > Gone 05/04/2016 at 16:07

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Well, you were right about the Laredo E, but the limited still doesn’t get QDII, it says QTII right there.

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 05/04/2016 at 16:08

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Do you have a KL? or XJ?

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:10

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I had an XJ. It’s ded now.

450X_FTW > CRider 05/04/2016 at 16:11

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The rear has a ELSD, electronic limit slip diff, if you get the V8 or diesel. The V6 version has brake lock (think it was called that), which can detect if one wheel is the air, and if so, applies the brake only to that wheel. Sending the available torque to the opposite wheel that is making contact to the ground.

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 05/04/2016 at 16:11

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is that related to a no-lo mantra?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > CRider 05/04/2016 at 16:20

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“off road” as in they took it on the grass once to park? I have a hard time believing those figures for both

CRider > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:22

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A Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 has a payload of 1,320 lbs.

Gone > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:22

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If you scroll further down it says QDII is not available with some configs and then they come with QTII. So I dunno, but the main specs page says it’s available (see pic). The whole option box states:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

18-Inch x 8.0-Inch Bronze Low-Gloss Wheels

18-x8.0-inch wheels keep your Grand Cherokee looking smart and classic.

265/60R18 BSW All Season All Terrain Tires

265/60R18 BSW all-season all-terrain tires are available for your Jeep® Grand Cherokee.

Electronic Rear Limited-Slip Differential

Electronic limited-slip rear differential rapidly transfers up to 100 percent of available torque away from a slipping wheel on the axle for added traction.

Front Suspension Skid Plate

Fuel Tank Skid Plate Shield

The fuel tank skid plate shield helps protect your fuel tank from rocks and on-road debris.

Goodyear® Brand Tires

Goodyear is a registered trademark of the Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company.

Quadra-Drive II® 4WD System

The Quadra-Drive® II 4x4 system with rear Electronic Limited Slip Differential delivers superior all-weather traction and legendary Jeep® vehicle off-road+ capability. Choose the Auto mode in the standard Selec-Terrain® traction control system for everyday driving or quickly dial in Snow, Sand, Auto, Mud or Rock for specific driving conditions.Always drive within your ability and experience level and consistent with conditions.

Quadra-Lift™ Air Suspension

Quadra-Trac II® 4WD System

The Quadra-Trac II® 4x4 system features a two-speed transfer case that uses input from a variety of sensors in order to determine tire slip at the earliest possible moment and take corrective action. When tire slippage is detected, as much as 100% of available torque is instantly routed to the axle with the most traction. Choose the Auto mode in the standard Selec-Terrain® Traction Control system for everyday driving or quickly dial in Snow, Sand, Auto, Mud or Rock for specific driving conditions. Also features a low range for added capability when off-road.

Selec-Speed™ Control

The Selec-Speed® Control helps the vehicle crawl at slow speeds so it can focus its power on going up and down inclines. The included Hill Ascent Control and Hill Descent Control features allow the vehicle to climb and descend steep grades with added control and minimal driver input.

Skid Plate Group

Tow Hooks

7-and 4-Pin Wiring Harness

Class IV Receiver Hitch

Delete Rear Tow Hook

Full Size Spare Tire

A full-size spare tire helps prepare you for unexpected scenarios when you're getting off the grid in unfamiliar terrain.

Steel Spare Wheel

Heavy Duty Engine Cooling

The heavy-duty engine cooling system is designed to vent excess heat generated by heavy engine use.

Rear Load Leveling Suspension

“Trail Rated” Badge

Transfer Case Skid Plate

Underbody Skid Plate”

HammerheadFistpunch > CRider 05/04/2016 at 16:25

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Their GVWR is 6500 lbs, and they weigh 4700 lbs. That’s 1800 lbs.

CRider > 450X_FTW 05/04/2016 at 16:27

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I know, but it’s not as good as a mechanical locker.

HammerheadFistpunch > Gone 05/04/2016 at 16:28

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if you go off this list

http://www.jeep.com/model-compare/…

its only on the overland as an option.

CRider > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:28

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http://www.jeep.com/en/jeep-capabi…

adamftw > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:29

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Jeep gets shittier and shittier every year for people who want to buy actual Jeeps. Fortunately for them, they product an EXTREMELY marketable and profitable product. The WKII sucks for reasons you already laid out, the JK is everywhere, and nothing else they sell fits my needs. I loved my XJs but they are too small for me now. I really am probably going to keep driving my Disco until it rusts out from under me.

adamftw > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:30

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I’m preparing to be disappointed with it.

HammerheadFistpunch > CRider 05/04/2016 at 16:33

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That’s interesting, because payload = GVWR - Curb Weight, so unless these things weigh way more than they say, or they got the GVWR wrong, I can’t see how that information is accurate. They quote the GVWR right on the power train part of the configuration

HammerheadFistpunch > adamftw 05/04/2016 at 16:36

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Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:38

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That’s related to a “following too close in the rain without ABS” mantra

Gone > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 16:49

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I saw that too. In previous years, QDII has been available on the Limited. My understanding is that only Hemi’s get the QDII (and only with 18" wheels) and the V6 and diesel (and any w/20" wheels) get QTII.

AutoTrader says this:

“Quadra-Drive II is optional on all-wheel-drive Limited and Overland variants, and standard on the all-wheel-drive Summit.”

Only a good dealer is going to know for sure...so none of them will.

HammerheadFistpunch > Gone 05/04/2016 at 16:53

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right. In any case, Im glad you showed me the laredo E option. That is a smoking overland deal right there. bigger tires, mild lift, and accessorize the crap out of it and you will have a compact and rugged little travel buddy.

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 17:11

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I think you mean Quadra-Trac II is part of the Off Road Adventure Package on the Laredo E, not Selec-Trac II, right?

Jeep also dropped the front eLSD from Quadra-Drive II on the WK2. On the WK and Commander it had front and rear eLSDs but the WK2 is only a rear eLSD.

HammerheadFistpunch > Textured Soy Protein 05/04/2016 at 17:12

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Yeah, Quadra-Trac II, quite right. As for the dropping of the eLSD...lame. same old - “Brake based systems work just as well as ..blah blah blah.” Funny thing about the Jeeps eLSD though, is that its not really an eLSD, its (principally) the same gerotor driven hydraulic unit from the old system but with the addition of an electronically controlled solenoid that, as far as I can tell, can only release the hydraulic pressure on the clutches (for drivability I presume)

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 17:25

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From what I understand, it’s still a gerotor type setup with a hydraulic pump, but the actuation is fully electronically-controlled. At least I think that’s what this means:

EGerodisc™ is a hydraulically-operated electronically controlled limited slip differential that provides variable torque up to full axle lock. It automatically identifies the optimal traction solution at any speed.

So whereas in Quadra-Drive on the WJ, wheelspin would cause a buildup of pressure that actuated the diff, the computer is making the decisions on how to actuate the diff.

I think.

HammerheadFistpunch > Textured Soy Protein 05/04/2016 at 17:34

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I wrote a hole big thing about this...but it sucked so I canned it, anyway, the eGerodisc is exactly the same principle of the gerodisc, but with the electronic solenoid to bleed off pressure where you wouldn’t want it (cornering) which allows you to preload the lsd much tighter to react faster and stronger where you would want it (off road, high performance) but I don’t think the electronics control any amount of lockup except to bleed it off. Think of it as always ready to rock unless called off, as opposed to off and ready to be called on.

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch 05/04/2016 at 17:59

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Hmm yeah that makes sense, this seems to be saying something similar.

A gerotor pump creates oil flow through the filter whenever left and right wheels spin at different speeds and the solenoid valve is activated. The oil flow is restricted by a Pressure Regulating Valve (PRV) to build oil pressure. Pressurized oil is then fed to a piston chamber. The piston compresses the clutch pack providing additional torque to the lower speed wheel.

When the antilock brakes are activated the differential solenoid is switched off and pressure is bled off the clutch pack.

And here I thought it was all computer controlled on the fly, but the more I think about it, the more that seems a bit too exotic for a system that debuted back in 2005.

Either way, it works pretty well!

(Not that I should care too much since I sold my WK today haha.)

BJ > HammerheadFistpunch 05/05/2016 at 14:06

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Low range is a utility, this is not a utility vehicle. Utility features cost extra.

No it doesn’t make sense, but it does make dollars. If they only ship 1% of their trucks with the more expensive tc unit, they make sure that the 1% who choose the feature will pay for it.